http://www.malestudies.org/
http://www.onstep.org/ IS ALSO LEADING THE WAY! YOU MAY MAKE A DONATION HERE!
I'm very excited about this and what can be gained by this conference. I am looking forward to a new discipline to be added to our colleges, "MALE STUDIES"..which I hope to god are run by real men.. In fact as marginalized as my male job has become I think I will contribute to this if we can get it off the ground...Feminist groups currently run the "Men's Studies" programs...I know I know, it makes me cringe too...
Hopefully though it will be a formidable counteracting force to Women's Studies and most importantly, run by men..I WELCOME A VOICE FOR MEN.... Do you think it will happen or will women be screaming like witches that men are trying to speak about our condition, our feelings and the male experience? Do you think anyone will even show up to this conference?
The Boys Project is AN EXCELLENT EFFORT to study the disenfranchisement of men and boys. To me the overwhelming theme is that men are withdrawing from civic duties, that of private life and even the creation of families..If men and boys are doing anything in an upward trend, suicide is on the top of the male agenda.
Tom Mortenson: Senior Scholar: The Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education: http://www.postsecondary.org/archives/previous/GuysFacts.pdf
-Suicide: Among 15 to 24 year olds, suicide rates were 5.8 times higher for males than for females in 2000. In 1900 male rates were 1.3 times higher for males than those for females. Between 1970 and 2000 male suicide rates increased by 29 percent while female suicide rates decreased by 29 percent. (National Center for Health Statistics)
Above: You can see that the male suicide rate has always been slightly higher but of most importance is the fact that male suicide rates mirror female suicide rates until about 1970 when it began to break off, up and away...Throughout my blog you will see plenty of graphs illustrating the changes that took place in the U.S. beginning around 1965-1970. Marriage rates, divorce rates, welfare and single mother government spending, free love, Second Wave Feminism, divorce, child custody, woman support alimony law changes, age at first marriage...All indicators started to diverge at this point in time. Male suicide skyrocketed and remains asymmetrical to female suicide rates to this day... What is harming men?
Feminist Response: Pain and suffering is the rightful condition of men. You deserve to harm yourself in ever increasing proportion, it is your nature!
-Incarceration: Since mid 1970s, incarceration rates have gown very rapidly. U.S. rate of 707 prisoners per 100,000 population is now highest in the world. The male incarceration rate has increased 400% since 1970.
-Male disengagement from civic role: Male voting rates have declined sharply since mid-1960s. Between the 1964 and 2000 Presidential elections the male voting rate declined from 72 to 53 percent.
-Educational-Master’s degrees: The male share of master’s degrees has declined from 60 percent in 1970to 41 percent by 2001. (National Center for Education Statistics)
"You can sober up any audience when you lay out the suicide data," he said. "The room tends to go quiet. The audience is staring at figures showing young males giving up on life at the very beginning of life, and they understand that something dangerous is happening in our culture." In recent years several studies by the U.S. Department of Education, the American Council on Education, and others have confirmed Mortenson's findings.
Throughout my blog and in these reports you will see that all realms of male health are on the decline.
-workforce participation
-voter participation
-suicide rates
-incarceration rates
-college attendance and admittance policy
-family law and marriage
-general health & health care
Lionel Tiger the author of The Decline Of Males will be there as well but from the review he seems to think that society should only serve as a means to an end in order to support a women's "choices". Not having read the book, perhaps Tiger believes that fatherhood is something that can be taken away by the woman and given to the State...
"Tiger, for example, thinks men should earn higher pay for the children they have during a first marriage, and that unmarried women with children should receive welfare without having to work."
I have a feeling The Decline Of Males gives no thought to the issue of Men's and Father's Rights....but may very well give insite into our current social ills and Men's place in the family and in society.
DO YOU THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM?...In short without trying to sound drastic men and boys are dying, I really don't know any other way to put it... However, I don't think society cares about the wellbeing of men and boys so much as that it's starting to and will increasingly affect the welfare of women...(the only human beings that seem to matter)
I know it sounds crazy but I am looking forward to the suffering of women as it is the only suffering that matters and will make change for the male condition. I've noticed that men have always come faithfully with honor to the aid of women but strangely enough, women seem to lack a feeling to do the same for men. In fact I venture to say the only thing that will help is if the woman has a son or is married to a man who is forced to support another family financially...
I do expect however that female reaction to male demise will not be one of empathy but one of resentment, scorn and misandry for what is at the moment and will continue to be invariably framed as the failure of men to live up to something or other.
Men drown ourselves on the Titanic because we value the wellbeing, safety and survival of women more than we do ourselves…..Men value ourselves less and women value men less than themselves….This is what feminism uses against us…
Women won’t help men because we simply are not as important as they are and we, men and women both know it….Again women will let us provide and protect them to our graves while still saying we are not doing enough. If we served nothing more than to be eaten by them after mating they would surly consume us….To them we are nothing but a means to an end….
Compound the above with women's natural tendency to make sure they are provided and protected for before and even to the exclusion of men (and this includes the obligation to die for women) you have a recipe for disaster when women are running social policies.
Women by nature don't care for the welfare of men, we are on our own, produce or die..Heck men don't seem to care about other men because we are in competition with each other making us a weak divided class who is not cared for by either sex. Take the diversion of the stimulus package to women for instance.. Women first college admissions through Title IX, Affirmative Action, 7 Federal Offices on their health when men have none... I'm not sure if the rest of you noticed but women control social policy to the federal level...
To me the message is crystal clear, women are a separate class with separate class interests who demand provision and protection and in response the male work horses women vote into power serve to provide it to them..."Women and girls first" and "Men and boys last". Males simply do not matter.
Men and boys are expendable, even to the family as is evidenced when a woman banishes her husband to forced resource provision or the fate of becoming an "isolated resource producing male" with fatherhood and family privileges revoked.
I really can't believe that men and society have given up everything we have to women. I never thought in a million years that the dreams of the feminists would actually come to be reality.......
And now a special report: The actual workhorses of the growing gynocracy, I give you the alpha males who maintain power by serving it.
When you tell women they are victims and not being provided and protected enough, look out, the rage of entitlement will soon follow! Government loves women!...It will continue to gain power by serving them until we consume and disenfranchise our own means of production needed to sustain us....males and the need for the enfranchisement of males as part of the family..
And now a quote from Hermann Goering a leading member of the Nazi Party. Among many offices, he was Hitler's designated successor, and commander of the Luftwaffe (German Air Force).
"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."-HERMANN GOERING
I like this quote in particular because the primary element for the rise of fascism and tyrannical governments has always been to divide the populous in diametric opposition. What better than a 50/50 split between men and women...The classic subversion tactic has always been the age old divide and concur strategy.
--"All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."--
In other words, All you have to do is tell them (women) they are victims and are being attacked or oppressed then denounce the objectors or pacifists (men) for not being complicit to the solution of removing women from danger.
The beauty in choosing men and women over Jews and Aryans is that men will strangely go along quietly with the solution with little or no opposition.. In contrast if the Stimulus Package was diverted to a specific race or religion, men would respond in an undesirable manner I assure you....
Increasingly if you have not noticed you will see copious amounts of propaganda pertaining to gender when speaking of The New Economy. Celebrating the victory of women is a rear guard action to hedge off male objection to the solution. Protection provision, and the advocation for the security of women is something men, in mass anyway, will not dare object to and unfortunately neither will women..
Our country is in the middle of a Revolution and does not even realize it... It will end in one of two ways...Men will become more a part of the family or less a part of the family and the lives of our children...With the continued disenfranchisement of men from the family and that of public and family policy I fear for the worst.
From this video I gather that men by nature are in competition with other men and as our value in the mating game is heavily weighted in external utility to the female, men will see to the demise of as many men as possible in order to gain status, territory and resources which get them mating opportunity..
I gather that men are not well suited to organize to accomplish social tasks in regard to the male experience or social fabric but rather at accomplishing such ends as building, fixing and intelligently utilizing resources to maintain life. It seems to me that male weakness in this area is used against men to divide them as a class and is one of the primary reasons we are in the situation we are with the rights of men and fathers... I fear men are trying but things may have to reach critical mass unless women contribute to helping men and women sort out our issues as a team..
I fear that women may have an innate tendency to see males as a means to an end for themselves and their offspring and oddly enough expect male suffering and sacrifice and even the death of males to reach these ends. I believe women expect male sacrifice, protection and provision to them and to complain about the male condition of servitude and subjugation to women is not allowed of men..We must continue to produce under any and all conditions..even that of an "isolated resource producing male" forced to provide for a woman that is not his wife and a child that he is no longer a father to.
I fear that women have no regard for the welfare and wellbeing of men and boys. I really do...I fear things will have to reach a state of critical mass..Again, men as either part of the family or no longer part of the family will be the result..
Posts
122 comments:
WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR, OPPRESSED MEN!!!!!!!11
*pukes everywhere*
This is the most laughable blog I have EVER come across. You got dumped and you're still bitter about it, right? Damn those evil females!
Lol, actually your quite mistaken.. I love the essential nature of women and have become even more endeared by some after getting to know them..
I've been fortunate to have fallen deeply in love before and have had close loving relationships with women since then...
This blog is dedicated to the socio-political conflict between men and women which has come to be because of secular gender politics at the Federal Level....
Men and fathers seek our rights in this new order...
Hmmmm You Say: "pukes everywhere"
How old are you young lady?
Are you able to articulate any thoughts other than personal attacks???
Great post. Divide and conquer.
Oh, I'm an adult, no doubt. I just don't feel a blod such as yours deserves a mature response. I've been reading through this and you seem to have a problem with women, whether you want to admit it or not. You're not doing ANYTHING to improve gender relationships. You're not bringing anything good to the table. I've showed this blog to my boyfriend and many female friends and they all think you're nuts and kind of scary. That's my opinion too. I don't think any woman who saw this blog, any self respecting woman, would want to be near you let alone date you and love you.
Oh, and in case you're wondering WHY no self respecting woman would date you and why I and people that I've shared this blog with think you're crazy, it is because your words in this blog are so hurtful and dehumanizing. Women do not want to take the power away from men, and you're not living in the real world if you think that's what we're doing or attempting to do. We want to SHARE the power. We want to be treated like equals. We don't want to continue to be paid less for doing the same job. We don't want to have to worry about sexual assault and rape and domestic abuse. We don't want to feel like our options in this world are limited because we were born with vaginas and not penises. Basically, all we want is to be treated like human beings, which is what we are.
You've created a reality in this blog that doesn't really exist. It's all in your paranoid mind.
You Say: "We don't want to continue to be paid less for doing the same job."
You are not paid less for doing the same job...look at the data...
You say: "You're not doing ANYTHING to improve gender relationships. You're not bringing anything good to the table."
No for a woman such as yourself I am most definitely not bringing anything good to the table for you. Equality stinks doesn't it?
You say: "I don't think any woman who saw this blog, any self respecting woman, would want to be near you let alone date you and love you"
What a selfish and self centered women that would be.. Wow, a woman who would want to subject me to the contract of marriage is no woman for me for sure.....
You see, being a father and dedicating myself to a family would be something of the utmost honor for me..However I REFUSE TO LOSE MY CHILDREN. MY FATHERHOOD WILL NOT BE TAKEN AWAY FROM ME.. Does this make sense in any way to you?
Do you think that men should have an honorable place in the family?
What happens when a woman abandons her family in our country?
I ask you....Do you, a woman, by law, bring anything to the table or can you walk away from your family while keeping a males responsibility to support you and what you see as "your" children and your "choices"
You say: "Women do not want to take the power away from men"
Oh really..You are not trying to take away the power that you seek in us???...Hmmm try actually reading my blog as you proported to have done. Read the article: "No Country For Burly Men" by Christina Hoff Sommers..
Understand this...women are a separate socio-political class that men are now in competition with...
You have done this to yourselves by your innate desire to be provided, & protected for.
What do you think women are complaining about then?...You think you are oppressed and held back from producing resources by the patriarchy don't you? You think you are being cheated by men?
Is this why your political leaders i.e. the Women's Party diverted the stimulus package to your gender?
You are my competition now..You are in competition with men.
How is it then that you and the Women's Party are not disenfranchising males from producing so that we may be adequate to women as a mate?
Look at your hypergamous mating behavior for god sake....
How is it then that women are freeing men from the role of provider? Do men have choices?
Did you know that your "choices" as a woman are available becuase of the liabilities upon men to support or enable these "choices"
You know, the "choice" to work or stay home, the "choice" to divorce with no liabilities. The "choice" to complete control over sex but most importantly conception.
Could it be by Title IX, & Affirmative Action "women first" laws that you are "not wanting to take the power away from men"?
Will you respect men once your "women first" laws reduce men from the current 40% of college degrees to 30% 20% or 0%??
I tell you what, despite what the Women's Party tells you, you have equal opportunity to attend college classes and apply for admissions...I challenge you, a woman, to retract all "women first" laws....
You really want independence from you dependency on men??? Then stop Alimony and Child Support and
1-Allow men to be fathers
2-Stop seeing the role of mother as a liability that the male must return to you as a capitalized liability should you leave him..
Alimony was fine before women saturated the work force and dedicated themselves to their family. There is so much downward pressure on wages now and competition from women that men should no longer be required to be your provider....You have to REALLY BECOME "strong and independent" as you promised....
Furthermore until equality is reached and being that currently the role of provider, husband and father is nothing but a risk and liability only to a man....SHOW SOME RESPECT.
I cannot listen to your rantings. You know nothing about which you speak. Feminism is not a threat to you. There are plenty of women out there who value the family and being wives and mothers. The family structure isn't going anywhere. Just because some women like myself choose to be more independent does not mean that men are threatened. My boyfriend supports me in all my endevours. He respects me as a person with hopes and dreams, which you clearly do not.
Do you seriously think that ALL women should go back to the kitchen and just be homemakers when they could be making so much more of themselves in this day and age? I'm going to school right now to be a journalist. There's nothing stopping me from that because this is what my foremothers fought for me to be able to do and I am GREATFUL for that. I'm greatful that lunatics like you aren't stopping me and you're resorting to whining on blogs about how people like me will be the downfall of society.
Stop blaming women for all the problems in the world. You're outdated, misoginistic viewpoint has no place in the 21st century.
And btw, the idea that women are being paid the same as men is laugable at best:
http://www.financialpost.com/working/story.html?id=360347
"In 2006, women earned 76.6% as much as men) and is calculated by dividing the median annual earnings for women by the median annual earnings for men."
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763170.htm
Keep in mind the wage gap is what economists refer to as the Raw Wage Gap i.e. the median average wage disparity of all men and women in the workforce as is outlined above. It is NOT calculated for the same job as pop feminism would like you to believe. Lets continue...
"After controlling for hours, occupation, parenthood, and other factors known to affect earnings, the research indicates that one-quarter of the pay gap remains unexplained"
Source: American Association of University Women
http://www.aauw.org/advocacy/issue_advocacy/actionpages/payequity.cfm
So where does this leave us. Well the only part of the pay gap that is not explained by women's OWN CHOICES of hours worked, occupation, parenthood,and other factors of women's choices there is one quarter left of the Raw Wage Gap that is unexplained. The portion "unexplained" totals to 5.85 cents. Feminists attribute this "unexplained" portion to "sex discrimination".
So not only is the 76 cents to the male dollar NOT FOR THE SAME JOB as feminists say but is the RAW WAGE GAP or "calculated by dividing the median annual earnings for women by the median annual earnings for men." furthermore the actual amount of this gap that is left after WOMEN'S OWN CHOICES ARE FACTORED IN is 5.85 cents. This amount according to the AAUW is "unexplained".
So essentially you think women have it "good enough" and should just shut up? That we're making up all the ways we're treated less than men? Is that REALLY what you think?
I don't know about all this "raw wage gap" stuff...I haven't really been able to find much non-biased info about it. A lot of it comes from anti-feminist/women sources. And I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt as you obviously think women are conspiring against you or something.
When it comes down to it, men have equality in this world. Women have made great strides in the 20th century, but we're STILL struggling, not just in America but around the world. I read a story the other day that a 12 year old girl's family SOLD her to a 86 year old man in the middle east. And a 15 year old girl was RAPED by TEN people outside her prom last year in the United States. People VIDEOTAPED it and LAUGHED instead of helping her. There are stories like this every single day. So who are the ones being opressed in this world? Men or women? The answer is pretty clear to me.
People of all genders, races and ages go through struggles. There's no doubt in my mind that men go through hard times too, but there's no reason to blame the feminist movement for all of that. Feminism is vitally important to many, many people, myself included. What BOTH genders need to realize is that you don't get anywhere by blaming each other. We need to try to work together to make this a better world for all people to live in. Your blog here is just as bad as the "man-opressing" feminists you speak ill of. Like I said, you offer up no good solutions.
P.S. Even Wikipeida (which cites the US Census Bureau) will tell you that the general premise of wage inequality between men and women holds true.
Wikipedia is an open access system and open to public edit. It is representative of the median average understanding of the subject at hand..
I urge you to study the issue of the wage gap intently to come to an understanding.
The source of the information I've provided is from the American Association of University Women...They say that the gap is almost mostly unexplained.
So to did the Shriver Report "A Woman's Nation" illustrated that 45% of the wage gap is "unexplained".
Taking these two pieces of data together I reason that 45% is unexplained as the woman scholars calculated making the remaining gap equal to 5.85 cents.
The rest, these women scholars postulate, is because of women's own choices.....choices I might add, that men work hard to support.... instinctual I believe.
It is precisely the male that has been personified into government.
What I urge my countrywomen to recognize that government is by nature tyranny, and always will grow and progress to such.....I urge you to study the writings and quotes of our founding fathers...
I can tell you that there is a good chance you have not learned about the constitution in your school. Study OUR REPUBLIC...
Know that we can not progress with unequal protection under law. Women must resist becoming a separate socio-political class...
Understand that the family is all that matters. With the fall of the family comes the fall of the Republic...
We are not the first civilization to come to this...In fact we are a few years past due....Most have lasted about 200+ years.....
You Say: "That we're making up all the ways we're treated less than men? Is that REALLY what you think?"
I implore you from the bottom of my heart..tell me how women are treated less than men? In my country, my country where the lines between nations were drawn in the blood of males and the stacked bodies of dead boys....
I was driving through the Eisenhower Pass the other day...There should be seven plaques in that tunnel for the seven men who died building it...Think where the energy comes from that is keeping you nice and warm in your house. Think about the light over your head....
You know where that comes from?????? Men, hoveling down in mines, holes deep in the earth digging and shoveling and digging and shoveling.
Men who pave your roads and build your house...I know men living in their foreman's basement..Their unemployment is being GARNISHED TO PROVIDE FOR A WOMAN THAT IS NOT THEIR WIFE AND CHILDREN THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM THEM...
My brothers unemployment is garnished to do the same...80% of all jobs lost in the recession have been to men. I fear that unless we put our men to work, unless my countrywomen let men have some of the protection, provision and security we can get us out of this...I promise you....
We have to build... freverently...
High Speed Rail, Nuclear Power, Energy Storage. The United States had the chance to become the leader in NEW CLEAN ENERGY. The solution to this was to charge straight for victory..
You should see a man..under stress..high in the mountains with my girlfriend. The temp can drop and weather can change in a flash of time....WOOD WOOD WOOD, SHELTER SHELTER SHELTER...CUTTING AND MOVING AND FIRING AND REINFORCING THE TENT, GUY LINES, AND TREE BOUGHS LINING THE RAIN FLY.....
WHERE WAS MY WOMAN??? IN A SPACE BLANKET KEEPING WARM...RIGHT WHERE I WANTED HER....
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING.... You disenfranchise your men and the Republic will fall....
Please, tell me my dear countrywoman how you are treated poorly...???
Are you effing serious??? Did you read what I effing wrote??? Women are treated less than men because we are taken advantage of, abused, raped, etc. every day. Men don't have to worry about the threat of rape or assault like women do because generally speaking they are stronger and have the upper hand. And in a lot of places in the world, like I also said, women are still sold like PROPERTY. I seriously can't believe you're ignoring all of this and focusing on the fact that independent women are bringing America down. The family is all that matters? Are you KIDDING ME???? The family has not gone anywhere. People are still breeding like bunnies.
I can't do this anymore. You are legitimately nuts.
Also, Wikipedia can be reliable when it specifically CITES legit sources, like in this case it cites the US Census Bureau. Men and women ARE not equal in America and if you can't see it you are DELUSIONAL.
Your simplistic view of the wage gap should be reevaluated on top of your lack of understanding that men have more financial liabilities to earn money in order to provide it to women..both in and out of marriage and even during courtship. You may not realize it but women have not freed men from our provider role...
When the flow of monetary capitol is measured women hold 60% of the countries wealth. Furthermore if women want to lower the wage gap disparity they should provide a concerted effort to give that money to men in the form of protection and provision of men so that men may participate in the domestic sphere...
The issue of female hypergamous mating behavior complicates this issue and it is my contention that women's behavior and choices will continue to exacerbate the wag gap issue.
The majority of the wage gap has been shown to be the direct result of women's choices...choices I might add that men either do not have in actuality or feel they do not have due to social obligations and gender roles..The rest...is categorized as "unexplained" which feminists attribute to sexism, oppression and discrimination against women.
Perhaps you should focus on allowing men to make the same choices as women in terms of participation in the domestic sphere. You will find that this will by far eliminate the wage gap..
You should also know that despite what feminists tell you...when you look at the numbers and research the women get paid less "for doing the same job" is political rhetoric rather than reality.
Feminists are the most elitist people I have ever known. For they have constructed a rigid pyramidical hierarchy of class victimhood, segregated the races and sexes into their subordinate places in the hierarchy, and appointed themselves sole arbiters as to whose needs can be addressed.
Then, whenever someone subverts their hierarchy by crying out in pain when they shouldn't, they say, "Get back in line! Know your place in the hierarchy of victimhood. We will tell you when you have the right to cry out in pain."
This Anonymous person hasn't even reviewed the data, that is obvious. She merely wants to maintain her sacred hegemony of victimhood. To her, it is a zero sum game. If men are treated as victims, it will suddenly not be all about her. Nor does she even know of what she speaks when she speaks of Feminism.
"We want to SHARE the power. We want to be treated like equals. We don't want to continue to be paid less for doing the same job. We don't want to have to worry about sexual assault and rape and domestic abuse."
Right. Women and men should compete on equal terms...except when men should be excluded from certain competitions, in order that women can win. Domestic violence and intimate partner homicide are tragic occurrences that should never be tolerated...unless a woman does it, because even when she premeditatively commits murder or initiates domestic violence, she's just "defending herself from the patriarchy," which is why Feminism's domestic violence laws discriminate against men. And I could go on and on.
Go read a book sometime, and stop letting everything you know about Feminism come from the NOW newsletter and Feministing.com, or some other surface-scraping source like that. It's like relying on McDonald's to know how healthy McDonald's food is.
Your movement is not a movement for equality. It is a fundamentalist religion.
Ugh, I can't listen to you anymore. You're ignoring everything I say. Every example I give you about how woemn are victimized is ignored or turned around to make men out to be the oppressed ones. I already told you that I have no doubt that men, like everyone go through hard times have struggles BUT THAT IS NOT MY FAULT OR THE FAULT OF ANY OTHER WOMAN. You just want to BAWWWW about how hard done by you are but you ignore how women are oppressed, abused and hurt every day. You don't seem to give a good God damn and I'm sorry but that makes it VERY hard for me to sympathize with your plight.
So go ahead and keep ranting and raving. I don't care. I'm fucking done with you.
Christ.
I bet you're one of those people who thinks marriage is threatened by gay people too. *shakes head*
And fuck you, gogonostop. You don't fucking know me. I'm very critical of certain aspects of feminism. I don't think women are right all the time but I certainly DO NOT think that men are hard done by. When men have the highest number of rapes, when men are the ones being rigidly told what they have to look like or suffer and die from anorexia and buliemia to the same extent that women do, then we can talk. Christ, there are a multitude of issues that affect women and don't affect men but people always want to go BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENNNNN!! WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THEM.
I'm so sick of it. You "men's rights" people are no better than the ones you condemn. You don't realize it, but it's true.
You say: "Women are treated less than men because we are taken advantage of, abused, raped, etc. every day."
"Men don't have to worry about the threat of rape or assault like women do because generally speaking they are stronger and have the upper hand."
Actually men have to worry more...Men are the vast majority of the victims of assault and murder.
Most crimes is committed to acquire territory and resources or is the direct result of male biological propensity to do so.
Women are also equally culpable and also the perpetrator in roughly equal proportions in domestic violence cases.
So you expect the alpha male state to protect you by giving you unequal protection under law...correct? Violence is violence no matter who perpetrates it..
You expect to use these laws as a method to separate men from their children in what is know as the "silver bullet" in divorce proceeding. You expect the right to due process to be removed.
You expect false allegations and paternity fraud to go unpunished...correct???
You also seem to limit domestic violence as to how it affects women which is a mistake that does harm to all of society...
"Perpetrator's Sex. Children were somewhat more likely to be maltreated by female perpetrators than by males: 65 percent of the maltreated children had been maltreated by a female, whereas 54 percent had been maltreated by a male. Of children who were maltreated by their birth parents, the majority (75%) were maltreated by their mothers and a sizable minority (46%) were maltreated by their fathers"
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/statsinfo/nis3.cfm#perpetrator
Please Read: DISABUSING THE DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC
ABUSE: HOW WOMEN BATTER MEN AND THE
ROLE OF THE FEMINIST STATE
LINDA KELLY*
Psychiatric News August 3, 2007
Volume 42, Number 15, page 31
© 2007 American Psychiatric Association
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/15/31-a
There were 92,748,000 adult males and 100,697,000 adult females living in the United States, when the survey below was conducted. According to the United States Department of Justice, July 2000: Findings from the National Crime Victimization Survey - Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence, approximately 834,732 men and 1,500,000 women are victims of intimate partner violence each year.
"In my house, being raised with a sister and three
brothers, there was an absolute - it was a nuclear
sanction, if under any circumstances, for any reason,
no matter how justified, even self-defense - if you
ever touched your sister, not figuratively, literally.
My sister, who is my best friend, my campaign manager,
my confidante, grew up with absolute impunity in our
household." "And I have the bruises to prove it.
I mean that sincerely. I am not exaggerating when
I say that."
--Joseph Biden Vice President of The United States
Understand that men expect to be beaten and abused by women and it is unbecoming of a man not to take the pain and beatings. As a consequence males are much less likely to report having been attacked and injured by a female.
Below: Prevalence, Incidence and Consequences of Violence Against Women
United States Department of Justice
http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/183781.pdf
Intimate partner murder:
Total victims 51571
Male victim of female 20,311 murdered
Female victim of male 31,260 murdered
-Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends, U.S. Department of Justice, March 1998
"Each year, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner related physical assaults and rapes. Men are the victims of about 2.9 million intimate partner related physical assaults."
Source: 1. Tjaden P, Thoennes N. Extent, nature, and consequences of intimate partner
violence: findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey. Washington (DC): Department of Justice (US); 2000. Publication No. NCJ 181867. Available from: URL: www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/pubs-sum/181867.htm.
REFERENCES EXAMINING ASSAULTS BY WOMEN ON THEIR SPOUSES OR MALE PARTNERS:
This bibliography examines 249 scholarly investigations: 194 empirical studies and 55 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 241,700.
LINK:
http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
You say: "I bet you're one of those people who thinks marriage is threatened by gay people too. *shakes head*"
Well, my plans to marry a long time male friend while cohabitating with a woman and having children with her is my plan....I can't wait until gay marriage is legalized. Marriage is threatened by gay marriage but feminists don't think men will do what I'm going to do. Smart men will...
MEN ARE ALSO THE ONES WHO DO MOST OF THE ASSULATING AND MURDERING MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, YOU FUCKING DUMBASS. IF MEN ARE BEING KILLED THEN WHO'S KILLING THEM? IT IS NOT PRIMARILY WOMEN. YOUR STATISTICS MEAN NOTHING. NOTHING. IF YOU SERIOUSLY THINK MORE MEN ARE ABUSED, RAPED AND MURDERED THAN WOMEN YOU NEED TO GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND STEP OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD.
YOU FUCK SO HARD.
"Christ, there are a multitude of issues that affect women and don't affect men..."
This is obvious. It is also obvious - to most people - that there are a host of issues that affect men that do not affect women.
The idea of "who is more oppressed than whom" - the Oppression Olympics which you are so desperate to win a gold medal at - is irrelevant. Whether or not men suffer more is subjective, and Feminism and its religious disciples are not the sole arbiters of what kinds of suffering are legitimate. You're critical of certain aspects of Feminism? Is that why you are defending it as if it were an infallible deity? Or are you just saying that to appear balanced, even as you say men have troubles and then mock them immediately after?
Your real complaint is not that we ignore women. It's that we don't sacrifice the needs of ourselves upon the sacred and inviolable altar of female victimhood. That is obvious when you mockingly say "what about teh menz?" right after you make the hollow claim that "I have no doubt that men, like everyone go through hard times have struggles."
Women do suffer, obviously. Their victimhood should be addressed. But your victimhood ego - which it is not my job to stroke - is another matter entirely.
LOL, what? You're going to marry a man and have sex with a woman? You legit are insane. Holy shit. Holy shit.
LOL, what? You're going to marry a man and have sex with a woman? You legit are insane. Holy shit. Holy shit.
I'm acting this way because everything that you people represent is exactly what you claim to be against. You're hypocrits. This blog does nothing but talk about how bad feminism is while portraying men as the REAL victims. Wtf? How is that better than women claiming they they are the real victims? I have a boyfriend, many guy friends, a father and a brother. I love them all dearly and they love me. I have absolutely nothing against men. I just don't like to be demonized and as a feminist that's how this blog makes me feel. You people are doing NOTHING to improve gender relations. How many times do I have to say this.
I'm acting this way because everything that you people represent is exactly what you claim to be against. You're hypocrits. This blog does nothing but talk about how bad feminism is while portraying men as the REAL victims. Wtf? How is that better than women claiming they they are the real victims? I have a boyfriend, many guy friends, a father and a brother. I love them all dearly and they love me. I have absolutely nothing against men. I just don't like to be demonized and as a feminist that's how this blog makes me feel. You people are doing NOTHING to improve gender relations. How many times do I have to say this.
I would also like to actually apologize for the fact that my comments are showing double. I'm having serious internet problems today. I'm not doing that to be obnoxious.
"I just don't like to be demonized and as a feminist that's how this blog makes me feel."
And is that the real issue, then? You don't want to feel bad? We're not blaming the victim; we're wanting Feminism to take responsibility. Yes: Feminism is responsible for discriminatory and unconstitutional laws like VAWA. It's responsible for men being discriminated against in hiring, education, and business contracts. It's responsible for the one-sided state of affairs in rape trials, due to the fact that they have established a list of privileges and protections that are not afforded to the accused, thus creating an inbalanced trial. They are responsible for, throughout various institutions in society, spreading false, misleading, and denigrating propaganda about men that runs contrary to empirical evidence. And much more.
If you don't want to feel bad because Feminism's promotion of inequality reflects badly on those who call themselves Feminists, then you have two sensible options:
1. Speak out against the excesses of the Feminist movement.
2. Don't call yourself a Feminist.
It's as simple as that. But don't turn a blind eye to all the bad Feminism does, and then expect everyone to not point out that the empress has no clothes.
Also: I don't remember this blog saying women don't suffer.
YOU SAY: "LOL, what? You're going to marry a man and have sex with a woman? You legit are insane. Holy shit. Holy shit."
Not really, it is the best way for a man to protect himself from divorce law...A man that is already married can not be taken to the cleaners by what the law will be forced to see as an illegitement relationship..
Again, I will marry my childhood friend who is male in order to protect myself from divorce law as much as possible...
I call myself a feminist because I believe in what the movement stands for at it's core. I'm grateful to the women who fought so hard for me to have options in this world. Truthfully, if things still were like they were pre-feminism I probably would have killed myself. My calling is not to be a wife or mother. I'm independent and I want to make my own way in this world. Sucks that men some such as yourselves are threatened by this.
There are problems within feminist but guess what? That's because women are people and sometimes, as people, we make mistakes and have disagreements.
You feel like it does a disservice to men and that's too bad, but really that won't change anything. There are plenty of men who are choosing to fight alongside women and feminism instead of against it because they know that working together will be beneficial to everyone. Shockingly enough the so called "radical feminists" are a vocal minority within the movement. I've been a feminist for many years and we often discuss how we can improve things for women, men, LGBT people...the list goes on.
I stand by what I said: You are crazy.
The problem is not just Radical Feminism. It's Radical Feminism, Marxist Feminism, Cultural (Relational) Feminism, and
Socialist Feminism. All of them combined.
If you look at all of these schools, every single one seeks to privilege women over men in some way. Whenever someone says, "That's not my school of Feminism; I'm a Socialist Feminist" (which she often erroneously labels a Liberal Feminist), she is basically saying "that's not my school of female privilege. My school of female privilege only seeks to discriminate against men in hiring, education, and business contracts, government grant money, etc." And so on and so forth with the other schools.
I support Classical Feminism and Individualist Feminism. But those schools do not exist on any influential, institutional level. So you see, it's not "so-called Radical Feminists" who are the problem. It's every single school of Feminism that exists on an institutional level today. The Radical Feminists only serve as a scapegoat for the other schools to get away with establishing their own kind of female privilege.
LOL, it's actually funny to me that you think feminism is a threat to you, though. Men still run everything, you do realize that right? When has their ever been a woman president anywhere in the world? When have women been the ones in charge? If you fear that America will suddenly switch gears and become a matriarchy then you are sadly mistaken. There are many, many people in the feminist movement who don't want that either. There are many of us who actually do want to share the wealth and the power we try to help other women who don't want men to have anything to see how wrong they are too.
You will be okay. Everything will be okay. Trust me. *pats you on the head*
YOU SAY: "I'm grateful to the women who fought so hard for me to have options in this world."
I see, and do you believe men should have options and choices?? Do you really believe that women will allow men choices?
"LOL, it's actually funny to me that you think feminism is a threat to you, though. Men still run everything, you do realize that right? When has their ever been a woman president anywhere in the world? When have women been the ones in charge."
This is a red herring and has nothing to do with the thread of conversation. Typical Feminist, saying "since women don't run the world, you can't possibly suffer significantly."
I stand by my post, which I made at 5:01.
Um, yes? Men should obviously have choices. What choices do you think women would deny men? You seriously sound paraniod and crazy all the time. Women don't want to take anything from you. They want to be included but they don't want you to suffer. I don't what women you've met in your life to make you so damn scared of us.
You say: "Sucks that men some such as yourselves are threatened by this."
It makes sense to me that men should only and naturally be threatened in areas where women are trying to compete and take away the very things men need in order to give to women...mainly...money..
Furthermore men should definitely be threatened by unconstitutional "women first" laws such as Title IX and Affirmative Action among others..that handicap men from producing money that women make us give them..
Do you plan on giving men "choices" anytime soon or is it just a womans choice that matters??? When will you free men from our provider role and the financial liabilities within the contract of marriage and divorce and even courtship and dating???
I stand by all my post too. Men have the upper hand and probably always will.
Women don't need men to provide and make money for them anymore. There's a thing called equal partnership that men and women are capable of having in their relationships. Men need not see women as competition, but as friends, co-workers, companions and well, human beings who deserve respect. We'll do the same for you if you do it for us.
The problem is that women are increasingly marrying the State which further disenfranchises men from producing and the ability to give this money to women.
You can see that as men have no choice but to provide resources to women such gender politics enacted by women and their political leaders leaves men with little choice but to fight...or withdraw.
The Women's Workers Party i.e. The Council On Women and Girls along with other Women's Party elements successfully diverted the Stimulus Package to women...
Read article: No Country For Burly Men by Christina Hoff Sommers
I'm not sure what you mean by marrying the State.
"Men have the upper hand and probably always will."
And therein lies your error. The false belief that, since a few men are visible at the top of society, every common man must be privileged over women. When you say "men have the upper hand" you assume men as a class are privileged. It's a hasty generalization. You're drawing from an unrepresentative sample and using it to generalize about the whole.
But none of that matters to you. As long as women don't have an equal or greater share of what a few men have (regardless of whether the women work to earn it), men can't possibly suffer.
Your entire moral compass revolves around your sense of envy and entitlement. To the point that you will excuse every single double-standard and excess of Feminism.
And that is why Feminism is a hypocritical and morally bankrupt movement.
Yes I am envious and entitled. Absolutely. You know me so well. You don't know what I've been through or what I've seen other women go through in life.
I also don't know how many times I've said that I love men. I'm in a longterm relationship with a man and have many family members who are men. I see the way society has done things that are unfair to men, too, but at the same time, the patriarchy is going strong. I don't see how men are suffering ont he scales you want me to believe they are. I'm pretty sure 99% of the men in my life would agree with me.
You say "the patriarchy is going strong"
Ahhh yes the collective expression of men's need or forced role of having to provide resources and protection to women...that patriarchy..
And your solution to "The Patriarchy" is what, to reduce or eradicate the role of men as husbands and fathers as necessary in order to afford women choices?
You fail to realize that anything less than patriarchy serves to disenfranchise men from the family and to society. Men will have no place in the family in a Matriarchal society.
What I mean by women's marriage to the State is the direct protection and provision to women from the State which is often times if not entirely to the detriment of men.
When you marry it is not a contract between a man and a woman but a contract between a man and the State to uphold certain liabilities of the provider role regardless whether the women breaks the contract.
Women rely on the State to set the terms of their personal lives with men. Women rely on the State to hadicap men with "women first" laws to make of for the "oppression of women" Equal opportunity is not enough for women, they must have unequal opportunities by unequal means.
The vast majority of the resources in our society flow from men and government to women...THAT IS A FACT.
Dude, where did I ever say that I wanted to eradicate the role of husbands and fathers? Nowhere. That's not what I or any of my feminist sisters want. Women's choices means that women can choose to be wifes and mothers or they can choose to not be those things. They can go to college. They can have lucrative careers or travel the world. But there will always be plenty of women who do want those domesticated things. There are and always will be women lining up to get married and start families and have men to help them in those things and provide for them to some extent. The roles of husbands and fathers will always be important. Always. I don't understand why you think this isn't so.
You say "Women don't need men to provide and make money for them anymore.
By the social and legal contract of courtship, marriage and in divorce men do need and are forced to provide financially to women and support women's choices.
Do to female hypergamous mating patterns men will not be freed by women from the "provider" role.. Women's refusal to allow men the choice to contribute to the domestic sphere also does not help.
Men will continue to bear the liabilities of the marriage contract unless women
1-allow men the responsibility to care and involve ourselves with our children in marriage and most importantly after divorce.
2-Alleviate female hypergamous mating behavior which essentially looks for a "provider" or "successful" men. Until women stop doing this men will by default NEED to dominate access to resources in the workplace in order to provide them to women.
You Say: "There's a thing called equal partnership that men and women are capable of having in their relationships."
And what does this "equal partnership" entail...that women will allow men to participate in the domestic sphere and thus force women to take on the man as a capitalized liability to provide to him financially should he leave her also giving him the right to take her children???
You say: "Men need not see women as competition, but as friends, co-workers, companions and well, human beings who deserve respect."
Women are my competition and their liability to men in relationships is forced upon men to capitalize and to provide payment to women for these vary liabilities they bestow upon us....Furthermore women pass "women first" laws in college admissions and business hirings which handicap men from producing the money it takes to pay women.
Make no mistake women are now a separate socio-political class with representation for their class interests away from men and family.
Take the diversion of the stimulus package to women for instance, I can't think of any higher epitome of secular gender class interest than this....and at the detriment of men.
Women have representation for their gender class interests at the FEDERAL LEVEL...Unless men gain equal representation under law their is not much hope to restore our once constitutional Republic.
What makes you think women aren't allowing men to be involved with children after divorce? Did you ever think that there are a lot of men who don't want to be ivolved? Ever hear of the term "deadbeat dads?" At the same time, I know plenty people who have divorced and the men were the ones who ended up providing most for the kids. You can't just paint people with a brush...things are always going to be different depending on the people and the situations.
The fact is, women are conditioned by society to feel like they need to do most of the childrearing and men are conditioned to think they need to be the providers. This is the biggest problem in all of this. If the responsibily could be shared more...if more men WANTED to stay home and help out more with their kids and actually be a family man instead of just "bringing home the bacon" and then sitting back and putting his feet up and patting himself on the back for a job well done, things would improve for everyone.
Also, if you see women as nothing more than your competition, you will never be able to have a healthy relationship with one. That's your problem, not ours. That's your own insecurity. You're projecting. You can keep doing that but you can also expect to stay lonely and bitter. Sorry.
You say: "Dude, where did I ever say that I wanted to eradicate the role of husbands and fathers? Nowhere. That's not what I or any of my feminist sisters want."
Understand that men don't have the default option of shared child custody in divorce.
Men are forced to save money and earn money to prepare for the capitalization liability of fatherhood should his fatherhood get revoked and that of "provider" husband should a woman decide to revoke his "privilege" to do so from within the family and marriage. This arrangement is bestowed upon us should a woman stay home rather than work or be the primary care giver..
The forced provision of resources and the provider role to women and "her" children without a doubt serve to make this roles value within the marriage expendable..
The idea being to create men as "isolated resource producing males" should women decide to force her husband to bear this fate...on top of losing ones children and the revocation of fatherhood to "visitor" status...
The State also wants to provide to women our tax dollars to support them through welfare in order to make single motherhood possible..men husbands and fathers become optional accessory that can be discarded by a woman at any time...
You Say: "Ever hear of the term "deadbeat dads?"
The "deadbeat dad" is a buzz word used by the feminists for propaganda.
In reality men who make the commitment of marriage vary rarely abandon their families.
According to Los Angeles divorce consultant Jayne Major: "Divorced men are often devastated by the loss of their children. It's a little known fact that in the United States men initiate only a small number of the divorces involving children."
Women initiate 70% of all divorce and we now have a 50% divorce rate on top of 40% of all births in the U.S. are to single women. Women and their political leaders wanted to destroy marriage and are doing quite well at it...
Women said a long time ago what their intention was..
Ohhh and just so you know if you insist on using that disgusting word it is actually women that are the deadbeats and should be public ally shamed.
46.9% of non-custodial mothers totally default on support.
26.9% of non-custodial fathers totally default on support.
[Technical Analysis Paper No. 42 - U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services - Office of Income Security Policy]
When you add all the information I've provided above you can clearly see that it is not men and our choices that have resulted in the destruction of family...Women announced in the 60's that this was their plan....They are increasingly accomplishing what they set out to do...
You Say:"If you see women as nothing more than your competition, you will never be able to have a healthy relationship with one." "You can keep doing that but you can also expect to stay lonely and bitter. Sorry."
Yes, and this is the threat and authority women know and use to force men into a position of subservience to their disposability. Submit or we will find a man that will..
You Say: "What makes you think women aren't allowing men to be involved with children after divorce?"
LOL, ohhhhh nothing really....just the fact that 90% of men lose contact with their children, their fatherhood revoked and reduced to the status of visitor...Their fatherhood turned into a capitalized liability called child support which is actually hidden woman support.
Furthermore the State and women value capitalized fatherhood rather than actual involvement with children as they will not enforce obstruction of "visitation" time by the mother but DO ENFORE FORCED MALE FATHERHOOD CAPITALIZATION...
Men, husbands and fathers are, by definition, "walking wallets" Women passed laws with the expressed intention of doing just that...
So basically men are blameless in every avenue of life ever? Women are to blame for all the problems facing both genders? LOL OKAY.
Listen, I am done with your paranoid rantings for real now. You are not a real man in any sense of the word. Myself and every other smart woman on earth is going to stay away from men like you who are so insecure in yourself and your place in this world that you need to have someone else to blame all the time. We'll stick with men who value us and see us as equals and not "competition." Fuck you and your petty, pathetic self.
PEACE OUT, FUCK. Keep crying about how hard done by you are. Just keep on crying. It won't get you laid but whatever. Keep on keeping on.
You say: "So basically men are blameless in every avenue of life ever?
Absolutely not. Besides I don't like blame but rather I would like to call it accountability. I think men are not less accountable because we owe it to women to tell them what we think is fair. We have not done so until now.
I would like to see accountability of women in their obligations to society and within a marriage.
I expect reciprocation of responsibility from women in marriage. I do not like that women's "choices" become men's capitalized liabilities.
I do not like that men have no "choices". I do not like that in every circumstance female "choices" and lack of accountability are supported by male liabilities and responsibilities in sex, conception, marriage and divorce.
I expect default shared custody of my future children and refuse to accept the view of women and the State that fatherhood is something that can be paid for..
I expect for women to free men of the provider role by giving us the same "choices" men have afforded you. I expect you do so by eliminating alimony as you are indeed "a strong independent woman"
I expect the removal of "women first" laws that are for the deliberate purpose of handicapping men in education and business opportunities making our forced role of provider in courtship, marriage and divorce even more difficult.
I expect the welfare of men and boys in society to take equal president to that of girls.
I expect schools to restore competitive learning models for boys and apply equal funding and programs for their welfare.
I expect the creation of the first Office of Men's Health as women now have 7.
You Say: "Women are to blame for all the problems facing both genders?"
No, just over 50% of the blame because women control the vote. Men are to blame for not negotiating and giving women what they ask for..Of course our male public servants know that if they do not please females they do not get elected....
Women seek government to provide for them, protect them and give them security and in doing so disenfranchise men as part of the family and in doing so make us expendable..
Men simply do not have equal rights in marriage...
She's not interested in a reasonable debate. She hasn't responded to any of your data without twisting it, making ad-hominems, etc. No use arguing with her.
Just for the record, Gogonostop, I am perfectly capable of having reasonable discussions if the topic is reasonable. You people boggle my poor female brain, though.
Like seriously, you just seem to have the same "I'll get mine" mentality that exists in the extreme feminist circles that you seem to dislike so much. YOU'RE DOING THE SAME THING THAT YOU CLAIM TO BE AGAINST. Can you not see that? This is not a good way to restore any kind of sane relationship between the sexes. I don't see why I should be reasonable with a bunch of hypocrites.
"Men's Rights Advocates don’t want equality. They want inequality, in men’s favor. They want the world that existed in the 1890s, when women were handed from father to husband, never free to be themselves. They want a world where women are beholden to their spouses, where divorce is unthinkable because it means penury, where children are a man’s property and a woman’s responsibility. They want a world where marital rape is not a crime, and where acquiescing to sex any time her husband wants it is considered part of a wife’s duties. They want a world where they call the tune, and women dance.
What MRAs object to, in the end, is that women can leave them. That women can reject them. That women can live lives apart from them. It’s too bad, because there are parts of society that would be improved by a true men’s movement, one that focuses on the idea that masculinity is not a single thing, hat men are capable of changing a diaper, or mopping the floor, or cooking dinner. But that’s not what the MRAs are about — not at all."
Sounds about right.
Okay, so I am the boyfriend of "Anonymous" and I thought I'd stick my two cents in, from a male perspective.
I gotta say that I find feminist excesses more excusable than Men's Rights ones because if you look at the world, there is a lot of oppression targeted at women by men. One thing that 9/11 seems to have made respectable is people suddenly discovering this — so long as it is in a Muslim/non-Western culture. There is just nothing comparable, in ANY culture of which I am aware, to what happens to millions of women: honor killings, legal marital rape, the deliberate mutilation of women to make sex uncomfortable for them, burning down women’s schools to prevent their education, prioritizing women’s “modesty” over their lives, trading women as sexual commodities to avenge feuds — sorry, where is it that any of this happens to men?
In addition, many Feminist organizations like NOW, the Women’s Equity Action League and the ACLU women’s rights project have recognized that so long as women are given preferences over men in some areas, there can be no true equality — and equality, not preference, is the goal. Where do you see MRA organizations recognizing the same for men?
Oh, and if you respond to any of this please do not play the "suffering Olympics" card with me. It is not “suffering Olympics” to point out that throughout history and throughout the world today, women have less power than men. Indeed, dismissing such things as “suffering Olympics” is a nice convenient way for you to dismiss the magnitude of the suffering so you can pretend that losing a custody battle is on par with, say, losing your life in an honor killing.
- The Boyfriend
@ the boyfriend:
"In addition, many Feminist organizations ...have recognized that so long as women are given preferences over men in some areas, there can be no true equality"
This is not true. At the behest of many Feminist organizations, men are discriminated against in hiring (affirmative action), education (Title IX), and elsewhere. Furthermore, NOW advocates laws like VAWA, which discriminate against men in domestic violence situations, regardless of their guilt or innocence.
"I gotta say that I find feminist excesses more excusable"
I'm not sure which excesses you are referring to. If you haven't read books like Who Stole Feminism (by a classical Feminist), you might need to.
"Where do you see MRA organizations recognizing the same for men?"
The thing is, women are not discriminated against anywhere by law. MRA organizations (the very few that there are) don't recognize it because, by law at least, it does not exist. We denounce any kind of discrimination, but the wage gap itself is very problematic, and has been debunked by the U.S. Dept. of Labor.
You make the point of legal marital rape which, while rape is a horrible crime, is only a small number of rapes (and it is now outlawed). Comparably, virtually all types of false rape allegations (which can destroy men's entire lives) are punished only rarely, and then it often is punished as a misdemeanor - a traffic ticket, or a very limited stint in jail. Think if all rapes were punished like that. Women would be crying out for justice. And many Feminists and sexual assault counselors who dominate the public discourse about rape try to sweep false rape allegations under the carpet as much as possible, because they believe it would be an impediment to the "more important war on rape."
A lot of the really horrible things you are saying (the deliberate mutilation of women), although important issues, happen on the other side of the world, and some of them are more comparable to western life than you may realize. Feminism doesn't burn down men's schools. They just discriminate against them in education via Title IX.
At a trial under Sharia law, a woman's word is worth half a man's. Under Feminist Jurisprudence, in trials of rape and domestic violence, a man's word is worth half a woman's. Sharia law condones honor killings for offending the male spouse. Under Feminist Jurisprudence, the Battered Wife Syndrome, a defense in murder trials, is often defined so broadly to include non-physical "violence" that it is in some cases a license to kill a spouse, becoming virtually the same thing - in effect - as an honor killing. Under Sharia law, a man can beat his wife. Under Feminist Jurisprudence, a wife can beat her husband, and if he merely defends himself, she can call the police and he will be arrested. A lot of this stems directly from radical feminist ideology, just as Sharia law stems from radical muslim ideology.
The Feminism of today and the Feminism of yesterday are not the same thing. Let me repeat that again, for emphasis: the Feminism of today and the Feminism of yesterday are not the same thing. They are ideologically different, as if they were night and day.
If you'd like a good online source to get started on what the new Feminism is like, look at this article by a Classical Feminist, named Cathy Young:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-256.html
Also, about the "Oppression Olympics": you're right in saying that throughout history women have had less power than men. What I object to, specifically, when I use that phrase is when some Feminists assert that because they they suffer more, men's issues are therefore illegitimate, and therefore it is ok to mock them.
And that was her tone, right from the outset: "WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR, OPPRESSED MEN!!!!!!!11 *pukes everywhere*"
Even assuming she was entirely correct in her premises, this is not the way to begin a rational and evenhanded discussion. She then goes on and on about how men are more bad than women, women suffer more than men, as a means of telling us to basically silence ourselves. I don't remember either me or the blog author saying women should keep quiet about female grievances, but this is exactly what she is doing with male grievances. We don't object to any dialogue about women's suffering. I don't remember ever saying, "zomg what about teh womenz." Granted, we may find the wage gap problematic, but that's just because we haven't seen any credible information to prove it is due to widespread "patriarchal" discrimination.
I find the entire debate about "who suffers more" to be entirely beside the point. To me, there are simply some issues that need to be addressed. And I'd like to address them without people saying that I do not have a right to speak for others who hurt, simply because women actually are or are perceived to suffer more. And that, again, was her tone: right from the outset.
I know that my girlfriend is very abrasive and can come off rude sometimes. This is only because this issue so important to her and I think she goes on the defense more than she needs to when she feels attacked. I think it's understandable. I don't claim to know what it's like for a woman in this world, being that I'm not one. I won't fault a woman for getting too emotionally involved these issues and flying off the handle at times. It's not an issue that a lot of people are capable of staying calm and addressing at all times.
And I'm sorry but how can you say that no feminsit organizations have men's interest at heart? That is blatantly false. I gave examples organizations who very clearly identify as feminist, and who have worked for the equality of men and women, in many cases by ensuring that women bear the same responsibilities as men and that men get the same benefits and privileges as women.
I also think my girlfriend is right in her criticism that you seem to be taking the same approach as radical feminists from a more male centered point of view. And I can't help but notice you never responded to that criticism. Interesting.
Of course they didn't respond to my criticism. Because they know I'm right. They probably know this statement that I posted:
"Men's Rights Advocates don’t want equality. They want inequality, in men’s favor. They want the world that existed in the 1890s, when women were handed from father to husband, never free to be themselves. They want a world where women are beholden to their spouses, where divorce is unthinkable because it means penury, where children are a man’s property and a woman’s responsibility. They want a world where marital rape is not a crime, and where acquiescing to sex any time her husband wants it is considered part of a wife’s duties. They want a world where they call the tune, and women dance.
What MRAs object to, in the end, is that women can leave them. That women can reject them. That women can live lives apart from them. It’s too bad, because there are parts of society that would be improved by a true men’s movement, one that focuses on the idea that masculinity is not a single thing, hat men are capable of changing a diaper, or mopping the floor, or cooking dinner. But that’s not what the MRAs are about — not at all."
is right too, which is why they never responded to it. I've got this whole laughable men's rights movement figured out. They want to keep us as their litte "wifies" who will honor and obey them and nothing more.
I never said no feminist organization has men's interests at heart. What I'm saying is, many still promote discrimination under the guise of "equality of outcome" which contain discriminatory quota systems. And I gave specific laws (aff. action/Title IX).
"I also think my girlfriend is right in her criticism that you seem to be taking the same approach as radical feminists from a more male centered point of view. And I can't help but notice you never responded to that criticism. Interesting."
To be fair, if I responded to everything, we could be here forever. I could also respond by saying you have not reviewed any of the information I presented (including the link I gave).
Also: with the exception of marginal schools like Classical Feminism and Individualist Feminism, as well as a handful of Feminists on YouTube, I've never seen Feminism speak from anything but a female-centered point of view. Especially nothing coming from the establishment of Feminism. But if you have examples I'm all ears.
My boyfriend and I know a hell of a lot more about feminism than you. This exchange has made that very obvious. There is no need for us to review "information" you supply us with, thanks though.
You obviously have no engaged with many feminists if you feel like we don't discuss how men are affected in our society. But we feel that the patriarchy is also the thing that hurts men, not feminism.
"It's right too, which is why they never responded to it."
I never responded to it because you're just making hysterical and wild allegations without proof. Prove your allegations with documented evidence from the leaders of the movement, and I'll consider your claims. If you're going to just make crazy inferences, however, I can easily dismiss them. Whenever you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you to prove that claim. It's not on me to disprove claims you make that are not evidence-backed.
On the contrary, we ARE citing evidence of our claims. We're pointing to specific laws, like Title IX, affirmative action, VAWA, the overbroadly-defined Battered Woman Syndrome pioneered by Radical Feminist Lenore Walker.
The problem here is, we know Feminism quite well. And the scary thing is, we might just know Feminism better than you do. That's why I can make videos like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go7cyTlao04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6lIurF3wA4
Therein I cite many Feminist texts which I strongly doubt you - as a Feminist - have read. Can you say you've read up as much on our movement? I doubt it. I doubt you even know the founding books, or can name any of the leaders.
You don't know feminism better than I do. You just don't. You are arrogant if you think that. I'm a woman. I know the female experience and struggles better than you. And I will not cave to this propaganda you're feeding me. I've read enough about this men's rights movement to know that you are seriously seriously bringing men and women even further apart. For you to think that you're doing anything good is laughable. It's fucking hysterical, actually. You really and truly are the biggest hypocrites of all time. You're the same as the things you are against. The same. The absolute fucking same.
"There is no need for us to review "information" you supply us with, thanks though."
Exactly! Completely closed-minded. You have already reached your conclusion, and are not open to any alternative point of view. Even if the information I present is from Feminists who are MUCH more influential than you are, you aren't interested, because it simply doesn't match the comforting foregone conclusion which you cling onto for dear life.
Wrong. Guess again.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/10/explainer-whats-mra.html
The Men's Right Movement summed up!
Here is my take on female circumcision
http://rebukingfeminism.blogspot.com/2009/11/female-circumcision-genital-mutilation.html
Aaaaaaaaand another one:
http://www.doublex.com/section/news-politics/mens-rights-groups-have-become-frighteningly-effective?page=0,0
I am so onto you guys!
Gogo: You Say: "you're right in saying that throughout history women have had less power than men."
Really, be careful to what you ascribe to as having "power". Male politicians are technically "in power" but they cater to the female majority vote..
I'd like everyone to read this little story on women "having less power"
http://rebukingfeminism.blogspot.com/2010/01/why-do-women-tell-us-to-build-things.html
"Men's Rights Advocates don’t want equality.They want inequality in men’s favor."
-- Women's Rights Advocates don't want equality they want inequality in favor of women.
They want the world that existed in the 1890s, when women were handed from father to husband, never free to be themselves.
--Never free to be themselves??? Please explain..
They want a world where women are beholden to their spouses, where divorce is unthinkable because it means penury, where children are a man’s property and a woman’s responsibility.
--LOL They want a world where men are beholden to their spouses where divorce is unthinkable because it means penury, where children are the woman's property and a man's responsibility to support as an "isolated resource producing male" with no rights to fatherhood or to create another family..Women can marry as many men as they want...Men can marry only so many women and they can support and be a provider to BOTH IN AND OUT OF MARRIAGE AFTER DIVORCE.
They want a world where marital rape is not a crime
--And they want a world where domestic violence against men is not a crime and in fact used against men to steal their children away from them. They want a world where men have no resources to seek help with domestic violence and where women abusers or seekers are not held accountable for their behavior.
and where acquiescing to sex any time her husband wants it is considered part of a wife’s duties.
--Really, and what duties does a woman have exactly? Do women have duties or choices? Are their choices not made by law to be the future financial liability of a man to support...?
They want a world where they call the tune, and women dance.
--Please explain
What MRAs object to, in the end, is that women can leave them.
--What Women's Rights supports, in the end is that a man can't leave them due to the unequal liabilities that women have placed on men to support them and the liability of losing your child and the loss of opportunity to father your children and to be a part of their lives. Due to these liabilities many men are unable to create or form another family..
That women can reject them. That women can live lives apart from them.
--And men can reject women but men are the only ones that hold responsibilities and liabilities in marriage and divorce. There are consequences for rejecting a woman and living a life a part from her.
Women hold no such responsibilities or liabilities.
It’s too bad, because there are parts of society that would be improved by a true men’s movement, one that focuses on the idea that masculinity is not a single thing, hat men are capable of changing a diaper, or mopping the floor, or cooking dinner. But that’s not what the MRAs are about — not at all."
--Really, and changing female hypergamous mating behavior is not on your agenda is it!? Women have not freed men from the provider role to even think of considering such a "choice" as women have...
Men are not free of our provider role in courtship, marriage and most importantly after divorce..Do you really think women are any more "strong and independent" than before "women's liberation"? The only thing that has changed is less female responsibility and obligation and more "choices"
These choices are supported by male responsibilities and liabilities to care for women who are just as dependent on men and unable to support themselves as ever before...
Motherhood or domestic work should not be a liability that men are forced to capitalize and pay out when a woman leaves..Men are not your employer but seek to be the equals of women...and to have the same "choices".
Women were half the battle in freeing both sexes to the desired state of mutual dis-need..All that is required now is that women cut their cord to dependence on men and government to take care of them and financially support them....Men are trying to free ourselves from you as you have from us.....
WOW, THANKS FOR THE DOUBLE X ARTICLE:
MEN'S RIGHTS GROUPS HAVE BECOME SUCCESSFUL AND ARE GROWING BY THE DAY....
I've been reading up on your "movement" all night and I'm finding it increasingly hard to read your words without bursting out laughing. to be quite perfectly frank.
I think I'm just going to keep trolling the hell out this post now just for fun. I'm not even going to read what you say. I'm just going to mock you. So it might be in your best interest to stop replying. We could be here for a loooong time.
THEY'RE NOT BECOMING MORE SUCCESSFUL. THEY'RE BEING CALLED OUT FOR THE BULLSHIT WOMANHATING THAT THEY ARE. GET IT RIGHT, FOOL.
JUST A CONSOLIDATION POST OF RESPONSES I DO NOT THINK ARE CONSTRUCTIVE..YET REFUSE TO DELETE FREE SPEECH....
-----------------------------------
"I don't want to read your take on female circumcision. Shove it up your ass."
"LOLOLOLOLOL. STOP IT. YOU ARE TOO MUCH, BWEC. I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING AT THIS POINT."
"Seriously, you guys are fucking HYSTERICAL. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. DYING OVER HERE RIGHT NOW."
I don't care if you delete anything I say. I really don't. I'm just fucking with your crazy ass at this point.
Your obviously very angry that men are joining together and forming ranks to support our rights...
Men are finally speaking about our feelings and our experiences and will continue to do one of two things in the future...Become more a part of the family or withdraw from it....
I understand your anger..You don't know how to respond to the essential truths in my blog posts..I understand it is hard for you but you must try to articulate some sort of intelligent response..
It took my A LOT OF STUDY to get to this point and I suspect it will take much more for you in order to properly debate with me....
As I've said before, this has nothing to do with women and my personal relationships...Men's and Father's rights concerns women as what has now become a separate socio-political class which seeks resource provision and protection from government and forced labor of males to support their choices...
Again men will either become closer to the family or will increasingly not be a part of it.....I would like to warn you now of the consequences of alienating men from the family.....
"WOW, THANKS FOR THE DOUBLE X ARTICLE:
MEN'S RIGHTS GROUPS HAVE BECOME SUCCESSFUL AND ARE GROWING BY THE DAY..."
I'm actually unsure whether you're being sarcastic here. Red, have you seen Cathy Young's response to the article? Here it is:
http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/mens-rights-feminism-equality-violence-opinions-contributors-cathy-young.html
LOLOLOL, I am not angered by your "essential truth" I am amused at the fact that you think you have any sort of truth. Men who actually want to improve things and address problems that affect them and women call themselves feminists, you turd.
Hyporcites and liars that's all you guys are. Hypocrites and liars.
Let it out anonymous let it out...It's ok..
I understand your anger....It is a natural process of coming around to an understanding...It will take time...Things will take shape again..just let it sink in for awhile..The same thing happened to me when I found out about all this...
I understand...
I love women. Why do you think I'm hear..to resolve differences with men so I can have a relationship and children with them....
I'm here right now because I do enjoy the women in my life and really would like a family but I am afraid I can not allow myself to get legally married and must protect myself from becoming the caretaker of a woman and child that are not my family..
No, you don't actually. If you understood you'd know that I understand YOU all too well. Don't condesend to me like I'm some dumb female who needs your male guidance. I'm not having any of this bullshit.
You make no sense. Holyshit. None at all.
You say: "Men still run everything, you do realize that right? When has their ever been a woman president anywhere in the world?"
Look down....way down...it's called "the glass floor" and it's where the men are living in their foreman's basement getting their unemployment garnished to send to a woman who is married and stole his child..
It is the 85% of the homeless that are male. The 80% of all suicides that are male. The 40% of college degrees that are male..The disabled, birth defects, lowest intelligence levels the majority of workplace deaths, the cannon fodder drafted to war, the dangerous filthy job of hoveling down in a mine shaft and shoveling coal.the majority of the incarcerated.
MOST MEN ARE NOT AT THE TOP....
Men are represented at the top and bottom of the dimorphic curve in all aspects of society and life..Proportionally and statistically it is females that sit nice and comfortable in the median average.....
You seem to think the male work horses in politics are "in power"
Listen women have 54% of the vote.. Women don't vote for women for some reason.. Women are the largest voting block AND decide gender politics all the way up to the Federal Level... Men have no such representation for our gender...
You say: "Don't condesend to me like I'm some dumb female who needs your male guidance. I'm not having any of this bullshit."
I don't think you're dumb I just think you're angry and that's ok..
This subject has angered my to but I try my best to study and understand so I can articulate my viewpoint..I've been doing this along time now....So I understand your frustration in not being able to come to an understanding or response...
This is a very complicated issue...
Women don't vote for womem because it's extremely hard for women to get ahead in policitcs in general, perhaps?!?!
Seriously, I fucking hate what you're trying to do here. I fucking hate it.
Read this link that I posted:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/10/explainer-whats-mra.html
Is this an accurate represenation of what you stand for? Do you believe these things? Do you think that women are supposed to magically want to join forces with you?? Even other men are against you. The author of this is a male. That sucks. And it makes me think that you guys are full of shit.
I said it before and I'll say it again: All men who actually want to make a difference are Feminists.
But your viewpoint makes no sense and is not based on reality. That's why I'm frustrated. You aren't saying anything that makes sense and when people make no sense and try to act like they have all the answers I GET ANGRY.
"But we feel that the patriarchy is also the thing that hurts men, not feminism."
Really??? And how do you plan to stop this patriarchy? Do you expect women will provide to men in this new order..Will men be a part of the family or simply and optional accessory that can be discarded and forced to work for an independent women???
Men and women should be equal in our society. I do not want women to run everything. I do not want men to run everything. I want everyone to be respected and to be able to find their own place in society.
I know you mean well.. Thank you for reading my blog and contributing..
I've added another video at the bottom of this blog post...You are all welcome to watch.... I'm very excited that men are finally making a voice for ourselves!
It figures that you did not address anything that I asked of you. It fucking figures.
And no, I will not be watching your video.
This movement is going nowhere, I hope you realize that. Even other men refuse to support you. Other men are siding with "the enemy." They're siding with us, the feminists. Men's Rights doesn't stand a chance if a good portion of men themselves don't even want anything to do with it. They're embarrassed and ashamed of you. What a laughable fucking "movement" it is indeed.
Again men won't have to take action, men will simply become less and less a part of the family...Women will become sex objects more than ever before, there is and will continue to be an increasing apathy toward women and respect or feelings of obligation toward them....
Men will no longer feel compelled to continue to be subjugated and society will continue to deteriorate..
Children will be something women do and provision will not longer come from "isolated resource producing males" but government welfare.....
The state of things to come is not going to be a pretty picture...Like I said, the means to a constructive or destructive end to this will come...It already is....You will see....Men will continue to withdrawn from the family naturally and by force..
Oh and just so you know, men are winning victories for our rights everyday and the feminist establishment is on the run...
You saw the article on DoubleX "Men's Groups Become Frightningly Effective"
As you can see Men's Rights has become so effective that feminists are frightened....They said it..I didn't...
HAVE A LOOK FOR YOURSELF AT WHAT HAS BEEN CREATED. It will only get worse.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvQDLNGGjeE
In answer to your question
YOU SAY: "Is this an accurate represenation of what you stand for?"
NO That guy is so far gone there is really nothing I can do to save him.....
As long as you continue vilifying women for "victimizing" you, I'm afraid you will never find a happy resolution. I rather enjoy my rights, you see, and I won't be giving them up. You seem to believe that women wanting equal status in society is somehow a threat to you. It's not.
We want freedom, respect, and equal pay just as much as you do.
And I'm not the only one. You can slander feminists as much as you like; we will NOT retreat back to 2nd-class citizenship. Ever. Again.
Anonymous:
It strikes me that you see yourself as a progressive person; most feminists do. I'm here to say there is nothing progressive about your way of thinking. In fact your way of thinking is highly similar to that of 19th century Victorian Christian morality. The idea of helping women is chivalry. It's as simple as that. The idea of helping and caring/loving men is a radical idea. Only a homophobe like yourself would disagree.
You refuse to recognize even the most basis ways men are systematically harmed. Such as:
1.Male genital mutilation
2.Discrimination against men in child custody cases.
3.Legal/Social discrimination against men in domestic violence situations/the social acceptance of women attacking other men.
4.Discriination against men in the distribution of health resources (i.e. far more money is allocated to men's health problems than to men's health problems).
5. Harsher penalties for men than women for the exact same transgression.
6.Almost all workplace deaths are from men.
7.Rigid male gender role stifles men's personal explorations of their emotions and denies them the expression of such things thereof.
The list goes on...
Women like you can't stand the idea of men loving/helping one another, because you're homophobic. You refuse to recognize men's suffering, which is typical from christians and conservatives such as yourself. Yes, sure other men will agree with you, because they don't want women to berate them and call them "faggots" or "queers". So congratulations for assiduously humiliating men and forcing them to succumb once again to the rigid stereotypes of masculinity.
You're so fucking revolutionary.
Seems like many feminist are upset that a growing number of men are saying "NO! We have had enough of your female chauvinist double standards".
"Also: I don't remember this blog saying women don't suffer."
Even if it did, what are we men supposed to be guilty about that?
Women don't suffer in this society; their suffering is so minute as to be insignificant.
Western Civilization (so-called) is based around the idea of eliminating female suffering.
If you disagree with this, there are more than enough feminist and women's activists who will explore "female suffering" for you.
We on the other hand, must give our opinion and our perspective. We do not turn to feminists and the female collective to tell us about "female suffering". We form our own judgements, and if you don't like them, tough, this movement does not exist to represent women or their feelings.
You already have a movement for that.
Western Civlization = Feminism
You can slander feminists as much as you like; we will NOT retreat back to 2nd-class citizenship. Ever. Again.
Well you should. That's what I'm saying?
Why?
Because if that doesn't happen YOU (women) will put men into 2nd-class citizenship (or even non-citizenship).
Us men have spent the last 50 years and longer hearing about your movement, your needs, your concerns. You have only ever cared about yourselves, and where the welfare of men conflicted, you abused and marginalized men every time.
You see, it's really of no concern to us whether you "will accept" "2nd-class citizenship" or not, because this movement is not about women. It's not about "protecting" "women's rights". Indeed it's not about seeing things from the "female perspective" at all.
It is about the welfare of men. It's about the male perspective. And incidently, our needs are best served by removing female privilege. By removing weapons which women only use to abuse and assault men.
Our concern is the primary concern. Understand that. This is feminism inverted, if you will; and it's the only way this game can be played.
And I do not want "equality" defined on YOUR (women's) terms. You can take that turd and shove it up your collective feminist ass.
"As long as you continue vilifying women for "victimizing" you, I'm afraid you will never find a happy resolution. I rather enjoy my rights, you see, and I won't be giving them up."
We won't be asking for permission to remove your privileges ("rights"). How naive of you.
We care for our interests as men ONLY. Whatever serves our interests is what goes.
If we identify removing your privileges as means of restoring decency for men, then we will do that, as a matter of pragmatism.
How you feel about this does not matter, because the movement is not about your sensibility, it is about Our collective interests.
Why should your sensiblities come before Our interests?
They must not and they will not.
"Other men are siding with "the enemy.""
This is true, but the main reason for this is because we live in a feminist society. So we as masculinists must destroy feminist society, which consists of matriarchy, female privilege and male subjugation.
The cultural hegemony is a feminist one, and men need to be educated on the nature of the feminist. He needs to be shown that feminists are indeed the Enemy, a greater enemy than any other ideology, party or group on the planet. We will show men that the battles between Communism, Capitalism, Socialism, etc. are of no signifance to men. The Eternal Battle of The Sexes is where it is at - feminism is but a player in this battle, and we must tip the War in our favour.
As feminists woke women who supported male-run society ("fembots"), we must wake men who support female-run society (i.e. contemporary Western society). This is all necessary and crucial work.
This movement is about consolidating solid ideas, a solid framework through which we can advocate men's welfare against the assault of feminism and matriarchy. This is a vital stage in the male power movement. The current stage of the male power movement is concerned majorly with managing ideas, selecting the best.
Action, advocacy and social change will all follow.
"But we feel that the patriarchy is also the thing that hurts men, not feminism."
That's for MEN to decide, not women. Feminists do not speak for men.
Feminists assessment on whether patriarchy hurts men or not are empty assessments of no significance.
Masculinists have concluded that matriarchy hurts men - indeed it and its parent (feminism) is the greatest threat to men's welfare today. We intend, therefore, to destroy matriarchy and its parent (feminism), and all of their mechinations.
Incidentally, I will give you the masculinist assessment on your hated "patriarchy". Patriarchy is does not "hurt men", it is good for men, it benefits Us, and it is worthwhile to establish a fully patriarchy society.
It is indeed a masculinist objective: the corrollary of our need to destroy the matriarchal/feminist system.
"Hyporcites and liars that's all you guys are. Hypocrites and liars."
Stop projecting, feminist vermin.
Wonderful comments anonymous! Thank You.
anonymous, you are a feminized robot. Do yourself a favor and take a class on critical thinking. It's because of indoctrinated women like you that is causing men to lose respect for women.
FEMINISM IS A BIG FAT LIE!
It is a hate movement and redistribution of wealth scheme. I am proud to be a man and I refuse to accept the shabby way that women now treat men. Fortunately the other shoe is getting ready to drop. When men finally wake up to the evils of feminism there are going to be a lot of barren, lonely, cat collecting women. And you'll only have yourselves to blame because of your disloyalty, lack of honor and betrayal, perpetrated in the name of feminism.
whoa. grow up, be a man, and stop blaming women and the feminist movement for your perceived oppression. feminists have huge issues with plenty of ideas that oppress men, they don't say only women are oppressed. look into it.
"feminist vermin" okay, i just have to laugh now. seriously? i have officially decided this is the most delusional load of shit i've, perhaps, ever read.
Post a Comment